now just a little Bridge here from where we were earlier in the day um we were we've been talking at a general level we'll talk at a more specific level tomorrow about how change comes through the changing of the insides and uh this involves uh some stuff that can be pretty subtle until you get used to it um it really does involve for example it involves us wanting to not want what we now want involves us Desiring to not have desires we now have it involves our wanting to not think as we now think see that's you have to go to that level to begin to deal with the roots of behavior and um that that really gets to Serious change when you decide you don't even want to have the feelings and you don't want to have the desires you don't want to have the thoughts that you do you uh you want to have different ways of interacting with people and usually those are pretty deeply embedded in us because they've been there forever no it involves training ourselves differently in many ways sometimes times for example in our church setting at the social level we have to uh change the way we approach uh praying for people and one good way to do that is instead of promising to pray to people when it's convenient just say well let's do that right now someone says pray for me for such and such and then instead of saying okay I'll pray for you you just say well let's pray right now right now actually that's a considerable step for many people and I don't know what your habits are but people have the habit of saying yes I'll pray for you and going on maybe they're uneasy about doing it right now with the person so that's at a kind of social level we have to want to change at the level of those inner habits what our body is ready to do what it's not ready to do um and we have to really want our soul to hook up in different ways so it's important to understand that because we don't understand that we just won't get down to the level of the changes that uh that really need to be made and that will affect our church activities too uh tonight basically I want to talk talk about what we do as when we come together How We Gather and what we do when we come together and why why we do that and uh one of the things you have to think is what we do now is not what the church has always done and it doesn't mean that what we do now is wrong it just means it isn't what has always happened I mean if you you have a little glimpses of this in the book of Acts and in the letters one thing you can say is the church has always gathered it has gathered people have come together and once you get past that there's not a lot that we've always done and often our practices when we do gather are more a reflection of things that have developed in our society rather than something about what would be wise for the church to do so now I think probably all of you are maybe already into that the issue of what we do when we gather pastors and leaders have the primary responsibility of enabling people to be together in a way that they will flourish and grow in christlikeness that they will develop spiritual competence they will be able to do the things that we all associate with being a Christian that means being able and being competent in things like speaking the gospel helping people who need help um praying uh um enduring suffering joyously um and uh that's what we're aiming at is something like competence in those things I think I'll read a little bit from Ephesians 4 tonight to sort of help us get that before us because the see the question what do we do when we gather is tied to uh structures I've already talked about the Great Commission the Vim principle but now we're talking about what we do when we come together as a as church and a lot of things have changed because even within my lifetime the communities where the churches were basically gathered in the churches there were of course some differences in what the churches were but actually for most of the history of this country all of the people who lived in a given Community could actually come together in the church churches of the community now that's no longer possible you can't begin to think about taking the people in Hollywood to church just imagine what that would mean uh you'd have to rent the Coliseum and then you couldn't do it right just the demographics are very different so if you're going to think in terms of the community you have to think in different terms than you would have thought um 75 years ago certainly 150 years ago just because of the changes in demographics so now um we have a statement we have statements over and over as to kind of what it's supposed to all come out to and I'd like to just work through some of Ephesians 4 with you um to get a a grip on shall we say the basic objective in Ephesians 4 you'll notice that Paul is talking about um uh what the gifting of people in the context of the church meant he starts out by saying therefore I the prisoner of the Lord he's writing this from prison I entreat you in e in Ephesus to walk in a manner worthy of the calling which you've been called with all humility and gentleness with patience showing forbearance to one another in love uh see this this community of the church is going to be a community in which there's no rejection no one is rejected if there are offenses which there're bound to be they will be dealt with by forbearance and forgiveness and that will be in the context of a community where there's actual communication about what's going on and people wouldn't be sort of going off on their own and sulking and resenting things and staying angry because there would be a kind of community activity that would in appropriate ways bring them together now um the idea of preserving the unity of the spirit in the bond of Peace then one body one Spirit one hope one Lord One Faith one baptism one God and Father of us all over all and through all and in all so that's the kind of unity in love that is envisioned among the Disciples of Jesus you remember that Jesus said by this one thing people will know you are my students because of the way you love one another he did not say because you got the right Doctrine he did not say because you've got the right practice he gave one thing one one thing you know that verse ver John 13:35 33 and 35 I think by this shall that's what Paul is talking about here you see and of course there are always problems but the problems are solvable now Paul goes on to talk about how this is to be done by means of the gifting which is given uh to certain people and he talks about how when Christ ascended on high he gave gifts un men and some were Apostles and some were prophets and some now what's the what's the essence of the of the claim here it is that you would have people who were who were acting with extraordinary power to accomplish the ends that are set forward uh in the passage here that we're reading so this would not be uh a manifestation of human abilities it would be a manifestation of Kingdom power so the kingdom now comes in and we've had a lot of questions about the relationship between the kingdom and the church and the main thing we want to understand here is that the people of Christ would have the unity and the love that is being talked about here and the other characteristics that I'm going to cover in a moment because the people who are in leadership are exercising gifts and Gifts mean that they are able ble to have Grace to accomplish things that they can't accomplish just by human Ingenuity and so the one of the worst things that happens to the visible people of Christ is they wind up just being humanly uh engineered and the result of that is that you don't have this kind of unity you don't have that kind of love so the gifts are given verse 11 for the equipping of the Saints for the work of service see the the the people with the gifts don't do the work of service they equip people to do that the old word ministry shows up here in the older translations for the work of ministry to the building up the body of Christ so what builds up the body of Christ is the growth of the members see one version of growth of church growth is not more Christians but bigger Christians so you might want to file that a way somewhere and think about it Church growth as bigger Christians right not more of them but bigger ones that would be Church growth too then you have this wonderful description here the equipping of the Saints for the work of service to the building up of the body of Christ until we all attain the unity of faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a fully developed person the mature man to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ I don't think that's being conceived of as individually individualistically but it does apply to individuals talk about individuals growing up in such a way that they actually show the nature and character of Christ and then when that happens the group will show the same thing the same kind of unity and fullness of Christ and then those to will feed back and forth across to one another and compliment and encourage and strengthen one another now the result here is stated in terms of individuals verse 14 we are no longer to be children tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of Doctrine by the trickery of men by craftiness in deceitful scheming and so uh people are going to be so solid that they can't be thrown around by someone coming through triling fancy doctrines and glittering as they walk and acting in a way that shows off how great they are uh they simply won't be moved by that they won't be impressed by that now imagine imagine churches that are so mature that they're not impressed by that sort of thing they're not swept away with someone who's slick who who knows has clever ways of handling people and getting them to do things and so on uh they just recognize it for what it is that contrasted then with verse 15 but speaking the truth in love speaking the truth in love we are to grow up in all aspects unto him who is the head even Christ from whom the whole body being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies according to the proper working of each individual part see that's the individual functioning in the body and uh as they function in the body then the growth of the Body for the building up of itself in love so when you talk about church growth talk about this passage now numbers actually are not to be despised but the truth is you'll get more numbers if you have this kind of growth than if you don't the natural process for the spread of the gospel and bringing of people into the body of Christ the natural process is one-on-one contact with individuals who have in them something so strong and so powerful that other people by and large will naturally want it there will be others who will be so threatened by it that they will attack but the the the ordinary person will when they see this realization of Christ in individuals they will come you won't have enough room to hold them now I want to read a little more more here just to spell out some of the details so skip down to verse 22 in reference to your former manner of Life lay aside the old self the old self is the go back to our diagram earlier in the day of all the parts of the self that's filled with the wrong stuff and you lay you lay that aside now notice that's something for you to do lay aside the old cell it there's no suggestion that this is just going to happen to you right we know that it won't happen unless you have help but it won't happen unless you do it so you have to lay aside the old self now a good bit of that is going to be just what I said a moment ago you're going to say I really don't want to have lascivious desires I just don't want to have them I really don't want to covet I really don't want to be offended when someone doesn't treat me like I feel like I ought to be treated I want to get the point where I'm not offended when that happens I want to do that see that's that's what goes into laying aside the old self am I saying anything that makes any sense okay and we'll have a little time to question and Challenge and all that later and I hope you'll do that but see I said said something last time about how we have to really fill out the words and make them meaningful and when we talk about laying aside the old self that ought to mean something and I'm suggesting what it means and it has to mean something definite because you and I are going to do that right we're going to obey we're going to follow the scripture we're going to do that so now this is major major major major for what we the main theme we're talking about tonight which is what we do in the local Group Well in the local congregation now another word that is used for this is mortify do you know mortify uh very often your modern versions don't even use the word they use something else that is not nearly as um informative as the word mortify to mortify means to let it die to kill it off it's related to the word mortgage you know mortgages mortgage is a term that deres from a couple of French terms Mort gaug it means to kill something off by degrees so when you have a mortgage that's something you kill off by degrees right and then when you when it's dead you burn it have a celebration that's related to the word mortify now back in back in Colossians 3 where we've referred several times and it's very important to use a these good passages to help us where we talked about you know if you then be raised with Christ um look above set your affections above not on Earth you're dead your life is hid with Christ in God when Christ who is th life shall appear then you shall also appear with him glorious the next verse in the older version says mortify Therefore your members which are upon the Earth it doesn't mean your toes and your fingers it's referring to the parts of your life that you can do entirely in flesh and so it mentions right off mortify Therefore your members which are upon the Earth fornication uncleanness inordinate affection that is desires which are out of order and desires which are just downright wrong I love the old version because says um uh after it says in ordin affections it says um evil concupisent now that's enough to make you run isn't it who would want to have evil concupisent around well that's just an Old English way of saying inherently bad desires get them read mortify then it goes right on to say and covetousness which is idolatry so you let those things die off see what is covetousness covetousness is the willingness to have what someone else has at their expense so there's a lot of people that covet Envy related to that so you let those die off that's mortification upon the Earth let it die off that's what you do with the old man you lay aside the old person and now you not only do that but you put on you you are renewed in the spirit of your mind and put on the new self which is in the likeness of God and has been created in righteousness and Holiness of the truth therefore laying aside falsehood let everyone speak truth with his neighbor for we're members of one another the truth is so Central to the the kind of growth and community life that we're talking about be angry and don't sin so have a limit on it don't let the sun go down on your R don't give the devil an opportunity because if you hang on to anger you give the devil an opportunity and he will take advantage of it let him who steal steal no more talks about that for a while verse 29 is a great verse let no unh wholesome word proceed out out of your mouth but only such as such a word as is good for the edification uh good for edification according to the need of the moment that it may give gross gra Grace to those who hear and do not grieve the holy spirit of God by now you see you just got a list here let all bitterness and wrath and anger clamor slander be put away from you along with all malice be kind one to another tender-hearted forgiving one another even as Christ has forgiven you God in Christ has forgiven you now what I want you to uh notice is that if you take the other passages like in Galatians there's similar passages there's similar passage in Colossians and so on then you go to the gospels the sermon and the mount they don't all say the same thing and I want to talk with you about why that's true as it's a very deep and important Point these are not giving you laws they are all expressing a kind of life and activity that naturally Wells up from the inner change that comes with Becoming a Kingdom person and following Christ so you don't have to worry about differences so for example in Colossians and Galatians he didn't say anything about let no unh wholesome word proceed out of your mouth well what's the deal here the deal is this if you become the kind of person who lives here you take the sermon in the mount in walk if you can do what's here Colossians 3 will be easy now you really have to understand that because that's the only thing that can keep you out of falling into legalism and trying to do these things that Paul said and remember that what I've said to you and you certainly are free to reject it or accept it as you feel led by your teacher which is not me but Jesus these are not laws you get one of them you'll have the others because you will have changed to such an extent and that's true almost with reference to a single thing like if you become the kind of person to take our hack example by now if you become the kind of person who who can actually bless those who curse you you will have become the kind of person who will be able to do nearly all the other things that are mentioned now see that's not true if you try to treat it as laws if you just try to concentrate on letting no un wholesome word come out of your mouth you'll drive yourself bad to begin with because you'll try to be watching those I don't want to get that on hold oh there it came got out before you could stop it right you weren't thinking see and that's that's the character of legalism is you have to always be thinking and you can't think fast enough to stay up with it so now the picture of the church here coming together under its leadership is a picture of a body of people who are together taking on the character of Christ now it doesn't tell you how to do it does it doesn't tell you what to do doesn't tell you to meet on Sundays right doesn't tell you to meet in an auditorium doesn't tell you to meet with tables and chairs doesn't talk about these things and uh this I think is a major thing for us to understand is that for the most part these things don't matter and that's why it doesn't say anything about them I want to read you a par a quotation from leth Anderson a wonderful teacher up in Minnesota I think it is he makes this remark he says while the New Testament speaks often about churches it is surprisingly silent about many matters that we associate with church structure and life there is no mention of architecture pulpits Links of typical sermons in fact there's no mention of sermons sermon is a that's a practice that developed and the terminology developed later on rules for having a Sunday school nothing said about Sunday school little is said about style of music order of worship or times of church Gatherings there are no Bibles no denominations camps Pastor conferences or board meeting minutes those who strive to be New Testament churches must seek to live its principles and absolutes and not try to reproduce its details those details simply are not given and now I if you aren't already asking the question then I want to impress upon you that we might simply ask ourselves why does the New Testament say nothing about all those matters to which the usual congregation today devotes almost all of its attention and what is the answer what do you think the answer to that question is it might be because nearly everything we devote our attention to today doesn't matter that might be it I suggest that you think about that it isn't that it doesn't matter at all but that it doesn't matter that much which of the things that we that we do um form the framework of our activities Something Else Matters not the things that we spend most of our time thinking about now I'll add on to that because we uh this is my version of the of the Great Commission you already have that so you don't need to worry about it uh I just put it up here to remind you of what it is and we'll talk a little bit about it um here's what Jesus said do he said make disciples to him and so now then the question is what do you do to do that how do you do that then you make the trinitarian in presence the rule of your whatever meetings you have and then you teach people to do everything that he said now Paul is addressing that same issue here because he's talking in a context in Ephesians 4 where the the disciples have already been made but now I point out again he didn't tell us how to do that did he now I want to suggest to you that the reason he didn't do that is because he assumed that the quality of life that we're living would be such as to attract and enlist other people into discipleship to Jesus and that when that happened then the Holy Spirit would come into that group and would supervise and direct as they were disciples now if they were not discipl IES you got a different story but as they are disciples then the Holy Spirit would come in would supervise and would direct and the result of that is that people would teach one another how to do all the things that Jesus said and um so now does it you have to do something don't you people gathered they talked to one another they spoke they taught we know that to be true and that is is essential today but I do want to add on and impress upon us in our context today that that we have to think about gathering in a different way where are people going to gather how are they going to gather in downtown Manhattan in one block you have 10,000 people living in one block 10,000 people you go block after block after block hundreds of blocks like that now how are those people going to gather how are they going to be together now we have a choice we can take the natural ways that they're together and say that is where the church will be and where the work will be done right or we can say we have to get them all together in one place and have a me meeting of everyone or large numbers of them and I'll tell you frankly that the demographics are going to make that impossible and have already made it possible in large parts of the world we have never seen cities before like we have to deal with now in Hong Kong sou Paulo Manila Cairo and so on we've never seen this before if you if you fill all the churches and synagogues in the United States once a week you'll get between three and 5% of population now you don't have to be a social scientist to know that if you just fly in airplanes and you look at the people and you look at the places where they might Gather in churches you'll see that that's true so the church has to be located in a different way that doesn't mean we won't meet we can we still will meet people will still meet the groups will meet there'll be larger and smaller groups and so on uh but we have to think in a different way about what we do as we carry out the commission of Jesus and the way we do that in my opinion is we have to apply that Vim principle that we talked about earlier now to the group we apply the vision intention and means to the group and that means that we really do ask ourselves what is our vision in coming together now I'm I don't I'm I'm I'm afraid that this is mean to say it but I have to say it um I think in most cases we really don't have much of a vision uh perhaps in many cases we'd like to the group to survive and we'd like for people to attend and give money we'd like for people to come to know the Lord to become converted and to get more people and more resources and to grow and so when we look around us in our world today and we think in terms of success in the church we tend to think in terms of well you know the the ABCs of church growth attendance buildings and cash attendance buildings and cash we tend to think in those terms and I don't think we can disregard those I think they're important but is that our vision what is our vision as a group what are we trying to do now the vision will then determine what Our intention is and then the intention will relate to the means so to pull those things together now and and um and relate them all in one lump to our concerns about our group meetings and we don't need to think of the group meetings in terms of very large we don't have to do that and in fact uh through much of the history of the church we haven't done that uh but whatever the meeting may be we have to think in terms what's the vision what are we hoping to accomplish and have we formed the intention to do whatever is necessary to get there and then what is necessary to get there that's the question of means now that leads us back to the question why do we do what we do when we do it because we already have a going operation and we do not have Ground Zero planning as I discussed it last night what Ground Zero planning we don't have Ground Zero planning we normally have to come into a situation that's already existing and if we if we are happy with what is coming out of that because of whatever Vision we have and that's quite conceivable and I'm not saying that's all bad if we're happy with that then we should stay with it if we are worried and concerned about what that does not do for people for individuals and in particular in relationship to character transformation and the transformation of our world along the lines that you would expect if you just candidly look at Jesus and read what he says if we're if we say this is not happening then we need to begin to raise questions why do we do what we do is what we do conducive to the vision that we have or living for Christ now and so that's where we take that Vim principle and we apply it to the group we've seen how it applies to individuals we worked about that on that this afternoon local groups through their leaders must have the appropriate Vision intention and means and these need to be implemented in the group and that would be achieved I think if the Great Commission were the mission statement of the church if the vision were what is said in the Great Commission and the local group identifies that and intends it and then says we have we put we do what we do in order to realize that then you have the unity of that viim principle applied to the local group now um each of us honestly has to say is my church is my group is what I'm involved in is that what we do or do we do something El I think it's very hard to come to grips with the vision that is actually operating in a group I think it's very hard I think that what we tend to do is become obsessed with perpetuating the group trying to make it survive devoting our efforts to that and as a result what we actually have is distraction from the Great Commission and uh if if at any point here do some of you say wait a minute we do the Great Commission this is what we're doing then say so right I can't do you any good if I just come in here and say things that you don't understand or you don't you already think you've heard or you think you're already doing maybe you are already doing see there's there's really little point in trying to speak to you and teach to you teach about the kingdom of God and the Divine conspiracy and and what that has meant what God means by it and how it comes to the individual life there's no point in doing that unless we really take hold and that taking hold May mean wait a minute I disagree with what you're saying what we're doing is the Great Commission we're doing it we're making disciples and we're going through that whole thing that I've talked about over and over we are disciples now if that's true then we need to go home because we're doing what we need to be doing now if it's not true then there are some wrenching things that we need to talk about and they can be upsetting because applying the Vim principle to the local congregation might well mean that there were some radical Chang changes that have to be made ah I'm sorry here I don't know if you agree with this but my view is that the typical church denomination par church does not intend does not have the vision of implementing the Great Commission they do not come into existence on that basis and usually they don't know it now I'm sorry to say that I but I think that if we're going to get a hold of our situation today for Christ this is where we have to start we have to recognize that leth Anderson is right and that actually the common problem is that people are distracted they're concerned about upholding things they've all was done making sure that the church survives and they don't have their eye on transforming the individuals in the group into christlikeness and that's spreading throughout the community in a viruslike way and not only bringing more people into the church which I'm sure it will but also starting groups here here here here here spreading out just like it did as Jesus said then you will be my Witnesses in Judea in Jerusalem and Judea and into Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth that's the nature of the kind of spread that comes when we walk in the uh the Vim of the Great Commission if you wish so now I want to use this um figure that Paul uses of the treasure and the vessel and if you will uh go with me to second Corinthians 4:7 for just a moment um Paul is actually talking about something here that applies to individuals and um he's talking about it applying in his own case his own vessel and his own treasure um but in verse 7 of 2 Corinthians 4 he says we have this treasure in earn vessels that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not not from ourselves I go back to the treasure he's talking about the glory of God in the gospel of Christ wonderful verse here verse 6 for God who said light shall shine out of darkness is the one who has Shone into our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ it's a beautiful summary of how God comes in his kingdom sends his son son and his son and the kingdom come together and the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ shines out where does it Shine shines in in Paul Paul's talking about being in him and in others that were his associates but now he says we have this treasure in Earth and vessels and he says that that is so that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves and then he goes on to talk about the affliction that he lives in the hindrances if you wish of sort of being a human being you wind up having a body a body is something that other people can get a hold of and mistreat it's something that actually grows older it ages it becomes weak that's also true of Institutions that's true of groups they age they get weak they get inhabited with people who do not share the vision and the attention of the people who founded them that's always true and it's you can almost say that in religion nothing Fails Like success because the more successful a group becomes the more people are drawn in that really do not share the essential enthusiasm Spirit fullness of the Holy Spirit Zeal for righteousness and for Christ and it just becomes a wonderful operation and it's so big and it's so successful and the tendency is always for that institution to lose its Vision to lose its intention and then the means become ineffective now then when that happens the group still wants to go on have you ever been around a church that died it's a very painful thing and it's partly painful because the people who I have identified with that have invested themselves in it just won't let it die maybe it should die I uh someone was telling me the story about the church here and of course it has quite a past and how the pastor Pastor Ed who came in here took a sledgehammer to the choir loft is that true and invited others to come now see actually that's profoundly wise but it's very hard to see someone do that now he did that because if they if he didn't do something with this this church would be somebody's secondhand store now so he was I mean he has a past and he has an experience of Christ that enable him to say this has to be done and we're going to do it and now he they they pull together there a different whole approach to things that is not just devoted to sustaining the Glorious past of the church see but you have to get out of the mode of saving the vessel that was that building was a vessel it was not to treasure right and and now every institution you look at that forms will go through that process and the danger is that we will perpetuate The Vessel and that we will devote ourselves ourselves to that and we will forget the treasure which is Christ see the treasure is Christ Christ Living in the group Paul says to the Corinthians the wonderful statement I was determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified and he's talking about how he came among the Corinthians in his weakness Paul was not apparently an outstanding speaker he was not a great showman he couldn't entertain and he came in weakness and saw the power of God accomplishing the transformation of individuals bringing them in to Christ and then growing them and all the wonderful things that we have out of a church that actually had a lot of problems also very serious problems they lived in a culture not unlike Southern California I guess even worse some people would say and that affected the people who were there but in the midst of that because Paul focused on Christ and what Christ was doing see because when he says I'm determined to know nothing among you except Christ and him crucified what he was saying is I don't paying attention to anything else than what is happening in your life as Christ acts and lives and works now you see our difficulty is to bring ourself to the point to where that's the only thing we will pay attention to in in our groups and if we're going to see the transformation of our groups into into churches and congregations and however you classify the um things sociologically there are people who come together and in that Christ is living and in that people are being transformed into the likeness of Christ that would get us out of this Con this bind that I mentioned at the outset yesterday about when I've talked again again about the gap between Christianity and discipleship between consumer Christianity and Christianity as a Perpetual transformation of individuals people engag deeply in pursuing and following after Christ so now our situation is one where we don't just hold to our distinctives as a group no matter how precious those may be but we hold before us the constant goal that Paul describes here in Ephesians of building up a body speaking the truth in love growing up where each member is nourishing the other members in the body and being nourished by them and what we want to do is to think in terms of how we can make that possible and as it stands I think we simply don't live the Vim with respect to being disciples with respect to the expectation of obedience and that means inner transformation we don't really take that as our vision and our goal and I'm harping on this because I want to at least provoke you to say that's not true we do that you're wrong and if you say that and do that then that's wonderful and I'll be very happy about it but I think we just don't expect it we don't make our goal the kind of thing Paul is talking about in Ephesians 4 we have too low expectations and if someone is really flourishing in Christ they're an exception not the rule uh and we we often uh adjust our group policies to the mediocre uh the person who is just a consumer Christian um to someone who has no expectation that they're going to change and grow and the result of that is that we have people who don't grow and our groups are often fil filled with people who are mean angry and contemptuous even of one another and we wind up walking on eggshell to keep offend from offending people and yet in the midst of that we know that Christians are supposed to be nice so we try to be nice but the inner reality doesn't change so now in order to do this we start by examining our gospel are we preaching a message that actually leads in this direction and you can't plow around this you have to accept the fact that if the message that is preached does not naturally lead into discipleship and transformation it's simply not going to happen those of who those of us who speak have to be serious with that question what are we really talking about what do we offer people what do we call people to what do we tell people is possible in the body of Christ well we've talked a lot about that in the last few hours in the last two days talked a lot about it but what are we going to do about it we have to look at our sermons we have to look at our teaching series do we do things like take The Sermon on the Mount and teach that and explain it or these other passages 1 Corinthians 13 do we do that in a way that it would actually happen you have to start there you don't stop there but you have to start there we need to talk about the kingdom we need to talk about God's presence in our lives we need to talk learning as a process that goes on after we become Christians we we have lost the tradition of the Seeker by and large in our churches we have the tradition of arriving and sitting down and saying everything is settled that is essential so now I'm just going to wait until I die or we give our attention to other things but you see that the picture that is present in the New Testament is one of continually seeking more more and more and more learning more and more and more for example about prayer continuing to learn more and more about prayer and how it works in becoming increasingly powerful in prayer so that for example when you old and you can't do much else you still are a mighty person in prayer because growing older doesn't mean you can't pray May mean you can't run around the block it doesn't mean you can't pray and you should grow older and older and stronger and stronger in the spiritual realm and this is a major part of what Jesus mean when he talks about not not tasting death is because you continue to grow spiritually and you just walk right through what we see as death on this side but our life continues and it continues in his world we continue to be active there I think a lot of people think uh they take that passage in in Hebrews about the great cloud of witness and think all the people do when they go to heaven is sort of sit in the bleachers and watch someone else maybe watch Jesus Jesus is apparently active you remember Jesus says in John 14 I go to prepare a place for you he's working he's doing something now you we not told a lot about this and you can make up your on your mind your own mind as to what you think you're going to is going to be happening after you leave this place I don't think it's going to be watching Jesus work anym than it's that here it's working with him and him working with us to accomplish good and prepare the future of the universe in which we're going to live with him it isn't going to be just passive observance so you grow and you grow and you grow do you ever ask yourself what's what are you going to be doing 400 years from now 10,000 years from now we sing about that don't we when we've been there 10,000 years what are you going to do right well you see our life here should be a natural progression which continues on for eternity and what we're learning and doing here should not just be sort of sitting and waiting but rather constant learning and growing you should have more and more power over the goods of this world for the benefit of others who are here and for the glory of God and that might be through people you minister to see the government of God is something that comes to us the kingdom of God that comes to us and it gradually extends now does Our Gospel say anything that see that's where we have to um now as we preach the gospel the kingdom then discipleship begins to emerge may I say this to you other people are also beginning to say it the primary field of evangelism in our day is the American church that's where the gospel needs to be heard but it is a gospel of discipleship and of Kingdom living because we have this large array of non discipleship Christianity those who are identify as Christians but are not disciples need to evangelized they need to hear the gospel if we do that then discipleship will naturally emerge people are not disciples because they've refused it by and large they have never been invited try this out try this out on people see if they have ever received an intelligent invitation to be a disciple of Jesus now what a disciple is we've talked a lot about and I can't go back that to that now because we don't have time we have to go on but try it out ask people ask your acquaintances ask people in your fellowship groups or whatever if they have ever received an intelligent invitation to become a disciple of Jesus would you be willing to try that now see that's the direction we have to go if we're going to do what we've been talking about in the local churches until we begin to move that level the churches will stand as a kind of default position for Consumer Christianity so now when you if you do that in your local group you're going to find that people are stirred up they may be distressed they may be worried about you they may want to say well what what do you think you're doing uh after all uh I'm a Christian I've received Jesus as my savior do I need to do anything more than that a friend of mine who was teaching discipleship in a large church had a woman come to him and said look why are you talking about all this discipleship stuff I'm saved I'm going to heaven when I die what's the point right what's the point now that's where most people in our churches are and I know that you all have special concerns and you're not the normal people I know that you wouldn't be here if you were so you you you have something else on your mind you have to realize that what you're up against is a version of being a Christian that says what's the point of talking about discipleship why bother to grow spiritually I'll do all that after I die many people actually think that and this man very serious good teacher had a woman who just came to look I've accepted the system I don't need this what's the point of it that is the Crux of the matter as far as the real growth of Christ in people in our culture today is they have been presented with a version of Christianity that has nothing to do with discipleship and they simply don't see the connection and that can go to Greater links another actual case was that I mentioned I think in one of the books is a man who came to his pastor and said I've fallen in love with another woman I'm going to divorce my wife and marry her and the man said you can't do that you're a serious Christian you're a leader in this church and the man said well now I I know that it's wrong but I will do that and then God will forgive me what do you say to a person who says something like that God will forgive me I'll go to heaven and that's what you've taught me what do you say to a person like that not much you can say unless you have a picture of the reality of being a person who belongs to Christ that is different from the default position that we're normally in so see one of the things you have to do in an existing group is is renegotiate the contract what do I mean by that what I mean by that is people who come into a Christian group have a certain understanding of what you are permitted to do and what they're required to do and as discipleship begins to emerge in a serious way in a group that's going to challenge others uh to begin to think about am I right or not and many of them are going to become very angry because they will say you have changed the conditions of our agreement our agreement was that I could be a Christian and not do what you're talking about and I still stand by that and so why are you changing the conditions this is this goes deeply into the uring Theology of our whole Western Christian system and it challenges us to say what really it is to be a Christian and to be saved and that is something that will make very very many people unhappy because you're going to be suggesting that there's something essential about obeying Christ there's something essential about changing about losing the things that cause so much sin and stress and loss among professing Christians you say well that's not the way it's supposed to be it can be otherwise and we're going to take the steps to do that because that's what our group stands for if you say that your group stands for that then you're going to have a problem of renegotiating and you're going to lose people if you say that and so you have to go through that process one of the churches that has shifted over on out here on the West Coast that has shifted over to a from a sort of mega church model to a uh discipleship model lost 700 people now that's a that's a challenge so they wound up with things like their $100,000 shortfall in the money they need to pay the salaries of the people on the staff what are they going to do and I'm glad to tell you that the two men who were Pastors in this case said we're simply going to stand firm we know that we could raise that money we we we successful with that this is a this would fall in the category of a mega church we can we know we can do that we know how to raise the money but we're not going to do it we're going to see what God will do and that is the that's the break point if you're prepared to go that route then you can go through the process of Shifting the local group over to A discipleship basis in this particular check case what happened was as I say 700 people left they were in real distress these 700 people went to other churches who wanted to continue the consumer Church model in the meantime people in the other churches who were sick to death of the consumer Church model began to move back to this church because they were looking for A discipleship basis for the organization they haven't evened out yet but that process has worked in such a way that they have returned to solid Financial grounds now this would not have happened unless the elders in that church had said as they all did we're with you we're with you and those Elders stood firm and there was a lot of unhappiness and moving and criticism and all kinds of Gossip in the community but they stood firm and they followed through and people had time to change and shift their basis to A discipleship basis rather than a consumer basis so now all of that is is really tough it is tough to do this par Church organizations who try to make this shift also they have a really hard time a lot of people get angry a lot of people criticize try to shoot the project down leave uh discourage others from supporting it and you have to go through all of that if you're going to make this kind of now I had to cover all that because we really need to know uh what we're heading for uh but now I want to suppose that we've made the shift and say now what do we do and that really is uh in the m category of the Vim model for the church and now we have the problem of finding the means to carry out the intention suppose you say we're going to be a discipleship church and you live and you weather the storm the white water as we call it sometimes of going through that process so now we're what do we do now and of course the first thing is you really have to be disciples yourself if you're the leadership the ministry they have to be be disciples and I mean by that they have to be learning how to do the things that Jesus said I mean by that they have to be learning how to live under his guidance in things that he didn't say anything explicitly about they have to be learning uh how to live in the power of God we went over this earlier but they have to be people who are comfortable with that and so that's for me and for you if we're in positions of leadership I have to say I am a disciple of Jesus I have to live that out in that church setting now that means that I treat people in a certain way that I have power to do certain kinds of things that comes from God and if it doesn't come from God I just have to let it go I don't step in and make it happen in whatever talents and Powers I may have very crucial see the Temptation is to take it into our own hands one of the Bible stories that's most upset setting to people I think is the story of usza you remember usza usza was he meant well but you remember when David was bringing up the ark to Jerusalem to the city of Zion that he was building uh they didn't actually do the right thing with the ark they had it on an ox cart instead of being carried and uh and when uh the oxen hit a rough patch uh usza was walking alongside of it and the Ark looked like it was going to fall off the cart and he reached out and touched it he was dead just like that wow that is hard David got mad at God if you remember remember that story it says that he was mad I think I might have been mad too right I mean that's that's that's tough that's that's really hard see if I'm going to go through this process as a disciple and a leader I have to be one who is prepared to let the ark fall if God does not steady it I have to be one who is not going to slip in and Patch It Up in some way that refers simply to me and what I can do I have to be a disciple I have to be someone who really does trust God and do the right thing and now if you have leadership like that then you're prepared to move on um and now the I don't have much longer tonight but I want to just talk a little bit about the kinds of things that you would do and uh I'm now we're beyond the preaching we've got the preaching in place we've got the leadership in place these people are actually disciples what are you going to do to help people who now come and say I want to be a disciple and I want to grow I want to learn how to do the things that that um um Jesus said and that Jesus did so now the what you want to do in general is you want to aim all of your activities at that objetive Ive you want to say we are a church of disciples we are a group of disciples and however you describe that group we we are disciples together uh of Jesus Christ uh then people coming in sign on on that basis now the next thing you want to do is start teaching them how to actually do the things that Jesus said and that's your main business so far as the activities of the group are concerned so then when you come back to issues like shall we sing songs what kind of songs we sing shall we have Sunday school shall we not have Sunday school what kind of services will we have will we have times of Silence in the service will we have times when people turn and get together in the service and talk with one another and pray for one another what will we do when we're not in the church building what what about small groups all of those questions will have one objective how do they relate to learning to do the things that Jesus said one objective now that's that I think is the uh guide poost that you look at and you don't need to squelch life you can still have fun there's nothing wrong with that you can still have good social events and social relationships that's a part of life but even that would fit into the objective of bringing people to the point to where they easily and routinely did the things that Jesus said so now let's just talk about a case in point let let's we want to get specific on things tomorrow and more specific than we will tonight but just illustrate uh let's let's uh talk about a particular uh command that Jesus might have given let your yes be a yes and your no be a no right uh this is given in a context of swearing not in the sense of cussing this is Matthew 5 he says swear not don't swear the old command said if you swear keep your promise to God now Jesus says don't swear see he's shifting from the outside to the inside why do people swear they swear an oath in order to get people to agree with them to do things or believe things that they say that's why they swear so now it isn't always officially something we might call swearing but it's any way of exaggerating or shading things in in talking that would be manipulative that is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5 anything that would try to manipulate people into doing things or believing things that they might not believe if they just had a flat statement of fact there's some interesting wording there Jesus says that if you don't just let your yes be a yes and you your no be a no there's something inside that needs to be changed look at what he says in verse 37 let your yes be yes or your no no and anything beyond this is of evil what's the evil you see the the verse now what is the evil now see if we're going to teach people to simply speak plainly and simply let their yes be a yes and their no be a no we have to deal with that evil what is the evil the evil is the desire to get people to do things that they may not want to do that's the evil now it can lead to lying but it necess normally this isn't lying this is the use of language in ways that Shades things that gives an emphasis that is not really just the way things are exaggeration is a primary problem for churches it's a primary problem because churches want to present themselves in a good light and that's why there's so much performance in our Christian meetings and very often right in the services of the church we find ourselves letting our yes not be a yes and our no be a no we find ourselves exaggerating emphasizing trying to put things in the best light and so on sometimes I think we believe God wants us to do that but if Jesus Is Right In what he's saying he wants us to learn the habit of very simply and clearly saying things the way they are yes or no know and letting it stand our whole advertising system is an exercise in yeses that are Nos and NOS that are yeses it's manipulative it's distracting it tries to get people to thinking about something that has nothing to do with the decision at hand just watch it and then ask yourself to what extent in our churches and do Christians manage to stay involved in that system of plain speaking if someone comes to me let's say as a speaker and they raise a question I have to be very careful and listen and try to respond in a way that's truthful that's sensitive that does not put any shade on things but just lets let the truth be what it is if I don't do that then God can't work in that relationship and I'll wind up manipulating that person just to make myself look good or to make my group look good now that's a challenge to get out of that so now now suppose you had someone who said I want to learn how to let my yes be a yes and my no be a no how would you teach them to do that well the one of the first things you would do is you would help them understand what's going on when people do that and you would talk about it in terms that they would recognize yes that's what I do I understand that when I do this I'm really more concerned about getting my way than I am about the person I'm talking to so I'm const I I realize that I'm constantly engineering my language I'm more concerned about myself and my projects than I am about them so you help people understand what they're doing when they do that one of the great things about the discipline of silence is it teaches us to let people know us without a covering language one of the hardest things about being silent is letting people make up their own mind here's a good discipline letting others have the last word now you know most of us are paid to talk we're almost paid to have the last word but letting others have the last words shifts the ground it allows them to make up their minds and often they have things very valuable to say it's a good discipline it's a good discipline in the family to let a child have the last word rather than being the parent and having the last word because you're the parent you see when you do that you you have a respect for another person and that respect is something that allows them to grow and to thrive as an individual because they're not constantly being pushed aside by someone else who is asserting their language and and pushing their way over the will of the person in question often preachers need not to say anything and let their people talk and if they are plain spoken and simple in their language then that will encourage others to be the same way so the first thing we have to do is to teach people what is actually going on when we make our yeses nose and our nose yeses or when in the language of the text here we swear by God by my head you ever hear people swear by their head in America there are all kinds of swearing I bet the devil my head have you ever heard that one that's an old American way [Music] of saying a yes which is not just a yes or no which is not just a no swearing is always invoking something that we really have no no power over to get our way with someone you have to teach people what they're doing exaggeration what are they doing now it's a great thing to understand that and then we have to help people identify the cases where they do that what are the cases in which they let their yes not just be a yes but something more their no not just a no but something more and now then talk about the case one of the one of the lies most commonly told in my circles academic circles is yes I've read that book now sometimes you don't say yes you've read that book you just act as if you had why do we do that so I have to ask myself why do I do that I want these people to think well of me and to regard me and as smart they want I they want I want them to know I'm with it right well how about just not saying anything letting them think of me what they will I see that would be a truthful and good thing but if I'm concerned to manipulate and control it I'm going to try to put put the very best spin on me so now I've suppose I've said yes I read that book what's a good thing that you could say to me about getting me where I don't do that well one thing might be you could tell me why don't you go back to those people and tell them you hadn't read that book that's a good discipline see you go through practices that disciplines are like that you think you can't do certain things and you find out you can there was a a man of some wealth in a seminar that I was leading with uh a group um and he was saying to me I cannot not yell at my son and you know how that by that C from he was this the son was a typical young man and they didn't agree and so when the uh when they got into these discussions the tone went up and so I have a friend who says when he goes to France he just he just speaks English louder and in these discussions between the Father and Son the misunderstanding the feeling of frustration just speaks loud he winds up screaming at his son he said I can not do that I yes yes you can I said I'll tell you how you can do that next time you do it give $5,000 to your wife's favorite charity and every time after that go up 5,000 second time 10,000 now he actually had the money to do that but it didn't take many steps for him to realize that he could succeed in not yelling at his son as he freely admitted you see you think of St Benedict St Benedict is one in church history who's so famous because his re his recipe for um lascivious thoughts was to go roll in a Brier patch that would do it you know what a Brer patch is now you think about doing that you see he was prepared to take steps and when we're prepared to take steps we can actually change something as simple as speaking plain yes and no and not being manipulative in how we talk to other people but we have to understand what it is and then we have to be able to discuss that we have to be able to take a suggestion as to what might be helpful in changing our habits going through that process coming back and talking about it giving feedback further discussion perhaps prayer further suggestions as to what could be done to change that habit now suppose that that's what we did in our churches suppose our churches were organized entirely around the objective of becoming internally Christlike people who routinely and easily did the things that he said we can still sing we can still have sermons we could still do a lot of the things that we still do but we would have to add on to our program a texture of interaction thick enough and right enough to help people form new habits that's basically what it's about it would help us to announce publicly that that's what we do that we do this imagine a church which said with reference to various things that bother people and they feel guilty about and they fail at they sin families need it so badly it's just I needed it so badly when I was younger and I was raising my children I hurt my son badly because I did not know and did not do what I knew to do to be as gracious and kind and patient with him as I should have now could we teach people to be like that could we say we teach fathers mothers how to deal with children in such a way that they do not become frustrated and angry that they're not hurt that doesn't mean that we let them do what they want to it means that how we handle the situation between parents and children is one where they are nourished and brought up and even if they are not obedient maybe they're very distressing that we still manage to live with them and love them and grow with them should that be the business of the church or should we just farm that out to psychologist and say lots of luck see one of the biggest problems in families is impatience children need lots of patience and understanding and in good families you see that but then of course it may well be that the parents are so harassed and worked to death and worried that they can't be patient so can we say to people we can teach you how to live with without hurry could we say that we can show you how to keep Sabbath how to be strong and rested and present with your children in a way that all of the bad consequences that come out of families that are weak and really become destructive just don't happen yeah I think we could we could say that but we have to say it can we say to people we teach you how to have love in your heart so that the things that are said in 1 Corinthians 13 come out love is kind love is patient love does not envy it's not puffed up and so on all those things can we can we do that now here's what I'm you can organize a Christian group around that there going to be a lot of renegotiating to do there's going to need careful teaching they're going to have to have teachers and Leadership that manifest discipleship in all the dimensions that we've talked about it there's going to have to be power present you cannot do this just by being nice you have to have the presence of God see our churches often try to FR choose between the Fruit of the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit you don't choose between those you have to have both of them if you don't have the fruit of the spirit love joy peace and so on you can't stand the fruit of the spirit the gifts of the Spirit because they're so powerful they will be disruptive but if you don't have the gifts of the Spirit you can't sustain a life in which the fruit of the spirit flourishes you have to have both of them that's a path of real discipleship we can do that our churches can do it they have done it in the past if any of you are interested in thinking about particular examples of this the best example you can find is look at the old Wesleyan class meetings they did exactly what I'm talking about this was done in many of the religious orders that we now call Catholic but remember before there were Protestants there weren't any Catholics were just Christians so you look at the orders of the church The Franciscan the Benedictine the augustinian and so on you look at how they went at this and later groups like The Wesley and class movement see Wesley refused to call his what his his movement he it wasn't a church and actually when I first began to go to South Africa to teach teach back in the 80s the Methodist Church in South Africa did not call itself a church they were called societies Wesley thought we just we didn't need another church we just need to get Christians together in such a way they understand their objectives they share their problems they pray and minister to one another in small groups in such a way that they actually grew into Christ likeness this actually happened see it can happen again today if we intend it and apply the means that are appropriate to make it happen and our question is simply and I I don't want to keep pushing this tonight but just leave with you this question why don't we do it why don't we do it if you announce it publicly you put a sign in front of your church uh you put it on your letter heads and your bullettin you say we teach people to do the things that Jesus said now if you do that in your local context and with Christians who are already on the ground you have to remember love those who don't go along we can't get in a battle with those who don't go along in an ordinary church if your leadership decides to move out in this direction there going to be a lot of people who don't say I didn't come here for that and it may be that they will change after time maybe they won't maybe they'll leave maybe they'll just be mad and stay right but no matter what you don't become mad at them that's a part of your discipleship you see that's a part of my discipleship this person disagrees with me but I love them still and I will serve them and who knows what will come of that perhaps the next time by they will say you know I see that this is right and I want in on it I want to be a disciple I want to learn so then your church can accommodate people who aren't on on board as long as you in leadership don't allow that to become a bone of contention over which you start fighting one another it's very important to remember it will take time for many people to understand some never will but for some it'll just take time some when they do understand won't want it just like the lady I told you about who says this is not a part of the deal I'm a Christian I'm going to heaven when I die what's this stuff about discipleship and many of them will say well you know this is not how I understood what we came in it's not in their contract but do remember the parable of the SE because the parable of the sewer also applies in discipleship evangelism perhaps in it above all and you'll remember there were four categories of seed where they fell now the fact that someone was in one category maybe they were on the hardened ground or they were among the weeds the first time the message came by that doesn't mean they'll stay there forever so we want to turn our churches into centers of love just like Paul described it in Ephesians 4 when we started here where we speak the truth in love that means among other things that we let our yes be yes and our no be no we speak the truth in love with non-manipulative then as we do that then the body grows in fullness people nourish one another and change comes about out and the body of Christ Gres up into the fullness of Jesus Christ and stands in the world as a PowerPoint Between Heaven and Earth I shouldn't say PowerPoint anymore that belongs to this thing as as a contact point between Heaven and Earth where the angels of God descend and Ascend upon the Jesus who is in the midst of the people